Alexandre Mazzia is used to high performance. So when in the middle of the pandemic he clinched a third Michelin star for the restaurant AM par Alexandre Mazzia it was not necessarily a surprise for him despite the fact that it came in a record six years. He has always set the bar high for himself.
As a former professional basketball player he knew that he could count on a number of skills he learnt in sport that applied not only in life but also in his career as a restauranteur and chef. Focus was one such lesson. But another was the realisation that in sport, like in life, you need to fight first and foremost with yourself to be able to improve. “When you are in a high performance environment you need to improve your performance first and foremost for yourself. The team benefits from the individual’s performance,” he tells Food and Wine Gazette in a long conversation.
“I’ve always been into collective sport. The idea that a group can be stronger than the sum of its individuals, that even if you are less strong than the opposing team you end up winning is an incredible feeling. And that there are also various ways to reach your goal,” he said.
Born to French parents, he spent his childhood in the Republic of Congo where Alexandre grew up to be very curious. That upbringing and settling in Marseille has a very profound influence on what he does, on his cuisine and his creative process.
You can win even if you lose as long as you lose well. This is extremely important and you need to be in a positive spiral to improve
He always loved the outdoors, he studied science but with his towering height, it was sport that captivated his attention and being 1.92 metres tall it was no surprise that he became a professional basketball player. On his return to France, he studied hospitality and gastronomy following his grandmother’s advice that ‘cooks never stave’. He trained in various restaurants around the world while still playing basketball before an injury forced his retirement in 2004.
Alexandre always had the feeling that win or lose you always won as long as you lose well. “I’ve always had the philosophy that you can win even if you lose as long as you lose well. It is a Japanese philosophy and it is a way to condition yourself. This is extremely important and you need to be in a positive spiral to improve,” he continues.
He has applied that philosophy also to the kitchen and particularly to the creative process where he knows that feeling good and being in the right frame of mind is essential to creativity.
It is not a cliche to say that sport is important in life. For Alexandre knows that sport has its ups and downs. “It is very difficult to always perform at the same level. You can face injuries, a player can have a bad performance but you also need to have a positive mindset e because when you are in a negative spiral sometimes it is difficult to exit. It also makes it difficult for you to see what is really happening outside your sphere of influence. The most difficult is to be able to take the best decisions for the group and to be an example,” he said.
To be the best at something you need to work harder than the very best
“Being a professional player means you need to train like a professional player. If you want to be the best shooter in your team you need to train like the best shooter or even harder than the best shooter. If you want to be a chef, you need to have the best knowledge for the job. Sport showed me that the collective spirit is extremely important. Whatever the team you need to create this group energy around you. As an individual it might not be the best for you but it is the best for the group. In a kitchen, like in many other aspects of life the group is more important than the individual and my role as a chef is like a coach or a captain. I can speak and gauge whether people are tired or weak and create enthusiasm, interest and even motivation,” he said.
Unlike in sport at every service you need to win the match. That match is ensuring that all clients are happy. The expectations are so high that even if you are not at 100 per cent you still need to show that you are at your best.
But while there are of course similarities between a sporting environment and a kitchen environment (at least at the highest levels), there are also noticeable differences. “First, the people around me are not high performance athletes. We are not speaking about performance or mental strength or the need to recover from a negative spiral. Of course, I need to condition people but I cannot forget that they are not high performance athletes. You can still get them to perform at their best if they sleep well, they get rest, they eat well and you nurture the spirit. Another main difference is that unlike in sport at every service you need to win the match. That match is ensuring that all clients are happy. The expectations are so high that even if you are not at 100 per cent you still need to show that you are at your best. There is always this expectation in the kitchen that you need to be at the top of the game. Today the team in the kitchen is so strong that even if one member of the team is not well there is another who can help and make sure things are working. This is different from sport. But there are also similarities. The mental condition and preparation is similar. “Like you prepare to face a match you need to prepare yourself to give the very best. If you are not prepared mentally, it can become very complicated,” Alexandre tells me.
Alexandre’s first solo position was as a private chef at Le Hom’Art in Avignon, where he spent a year and a half cooking for dignitaries and VIP clientele. In 2009, he accepted a permanent role in Marseille at Le Corbusier, where his own style began to formalise and emerge. He settled down in Marseille which he calls home today leaning on the surroundings and incorporating local produce with his African childhood and influences. He opened AM par Alexandre Mazzia in 2014 and during the pandemic clinched 3 Michelin stars in record time.
Alexandre knew how important it was to keep the team together during the pandemic when the restaurant was closed. I asked him whether he worried that the expectations would change since they had closed as a two Michelin star restaurant and reopened as a three Michelin star restaurant. As a sportsman Alexandre knew that like in sport where the pre-season can determine the success or not of the season, he needed to keep the team in shape even if not at their peak.
“I always told the team that we were compensated for what we had been doing and not for what we would be doing. So what was important was to retain the same level we had before the closure. We would cook once every week during the pandemic just to retain the feeling. We would meet every Thursday and Saturday to retain the team spirit and four weeks before the opening, we started team building. We added people to the team so we became stronger than we were. What was important was to find the flavours and also the team work because training one to two services per week is completely different to doing a service every day. So we started with lunch, then we added evenings. First we did three days and then four days. This was a month before the opening. So when we opened we were ready,” he said.
“When you are a three Michelin star restaurant you need to deliver the standards you impose on yourself not what the guide imposes on you. So when we opened we needed to be at that level. To play your best ever match you need to train extremely hard. We worked and prepared a lot to be ready.”
Despite the sporting philosophy and approach to the kitchen, Alexandre does not believe that the world of gastronomy is competitive. “This is not a competition between one chef and another or a restaurant and another but it is a competition with yourself. Of course a ranking is always cool for the team and the better it is, the better it is for the team. But wanting to be the world’s best restaurant is not something I have as an objective. My idea is to do what I do and to continue to improve both for the people who work with me and also for our clients. To be part of this microcosm is already superb. For me, having three Michelin stars after six years has been incredible. We already had a great performance but it is not a surprise and we continue to do what we do while having fun. We want to continue performing well but it is not us against them, that’s not how it works,” he tells me.
Marseille is the place he has settled in that this has been a huge influence for him. “Marseille influences my cuisine. It is natural. There is the sea, there is the marine aspect of life and also the light.”
Having lived in Africa for 15 years also influenced him considerably particularly when it comes to his cooking and the triangle of taste he uses from spices to smoke and chili. “All these have been an element of my childhood and have had a huge impact on my cuisine. But these are also elements that one finds in Marseille because it is a melting pot with lots of people from North Africa and even central Africa. The cuisine in the city reflects the people of Marseille, the richness of the world and also the territory,” he said.
You need to feel well to be creative
“We are lucky to be able to work in a place that is full of sunshine. This is important for the spirit and also for the energy. But the sun also creates great produce and there are also incredible artisans and fishermen which makes this place magnificent,” Alexandre adds.
To be creative you need to feel well. As I have progressed, I’ve realised that I need adrenaline to be able to be creative. There are no rules. If you are feeling well, you can be creative. It is also important to focus on the best so you are in the best form to be creative. For me, this is the most important aspect of the creative process
Despite having these three elements of taste he does not place any limits on creating dishes though over the years, if he analysis what he has done, the running thread is the use of spices and chilli which has been a constant. “It does not mean that every dish needs to have these elements but rather that a whole menu needs to be coherent. It is important for the clients to know where we are going and to be able to understand the story.”
The lanky chef does not shy away from taking responsibility for the creative process. “My story is personal so it is practically impossible to outsource creation to the team. Of course there is always sharing, colleagues who try out dishes but the creation comes from me and I take responsibility for the creations. It would be mentally very difficult for me to give this process to someone else. The fact that there is one person responsible for creation is what creates strength in the restaurant. I need to be in the right frame of mind to be able to be creative. I do not pose limits or say to myself that tomorrow I have to do this or that but rather I work on creation when I feel it is the right moment. To be creative you need to feel well. I also keep in mind that when we create something new, it can destabilise the team so it needs to be well thought out.”
In the past Alexandre used to be stricter when it came to creating new dishes. He would dedicate a given time, say every afternoon or every morning to the creative process. “Now I do as I please. Sometimes I do something before service, sometimes after service or in the evening. As I have progressed, I’ve realised that I need adrenaline to be able to be creative. Inspiration can come from any place. But I need to be alone. I am curious by nature and I may get inspiration from music or a museum. There is no rule. A dish could be the result of two minutes, 6 hours, an afternoon. There are no rules. If you are feeling well, you can be creative. It is also important to focus on the best so you are in the best form to be creative. For me, this is the most important aspect of the creative process,” he says.
Alexandre is conscious that being the one to watch in the World’s 50 Best Restaurants list has put him in the spotlight. “It is good because it also brings journalists to the city. So the result is important for the city and also for France. I am proud of this result and this allows us to be able to also look internationally and to be part of a new network apart from that of Michelin stars. Today we are visited by global chefs, a lot come to us to see how we work and this is also good for France and for French cuisine.”
So what do you make of the French scene I ask Alexandre. “It is very rich in creativity. At the same time, I don’t think in terms of the French scene, or the Nordic scene or any other scene. What I look at is the global scene of people who are passionate about their territory and who try to give a signature to their cuisine. I love Spain for its cuisine, I love the Japanese cuisine for its protocol, for the respect for ingredients and I love the light Nordic cuisine. This is really rich for the whole world and I find it admirable and fantastic. I do not go to Spain or to Japan to find inspiration but rather to exchange and see other chef’s stories. It is great to be able to travel and enter a new universe like you do when you go to a cinema and watch a new film.”
During the lockdowns, Alexandre Mazzia set up a food truck that became famous globally and he even attracted Mauro Colagreco to cook in the food truck. “It was a superb experience. We created modern street food with the same produce that we used in our restaurant. It was a way to keep business flowing with our fishermen and our producers. It also helped us mentally to work which was also good. Of course fine dining and street food in a food truck is not the same job but it requires the same type of energy, the same vivacity and also the same focus of serving customers. We also created a link with people, children and customers who came from Lyon, Paris, Lille and many other cities and that was really great.”
The food truck is something that will continue and has continued after its success during the pandemic. “We did it in summer, we did it during Christmas and we will continue to do the same thing. And I would like to develop the food truck concept internationally maybe in New York but I would also like to have a food truck in Africa,” he said.
Alexandre has seen a change in the way people went to the restaurant after the pandemic and it worked well. But he is now conscious that with inflation, the energy crisis this can have an impact on the restaurant. “COVID was complicated and we needed to be very careful. But there is now also a war and this is having an impact. While we as French are never happy, we were lucky that the government helped us continue. But activity at the moment is up and down and it has an impact on a restaurant even on one with just a small number of covers. That is why it is important for me to be here all the time and not to develop or grow too fast. I am here for every service and I want to make sure clients are happy. This is also essential.
I ask him whether he believes that in future people will pay a premium for a restaurant where the main actor, the chef is present. “Gastronomy will change. But there are chefs that have many restaurants, that do well and that can generate economies of scale. This is also important. For me, I’ve put in on myself that it is essential to be here. When people spend a certain amount of money, I think you need to be there. At least this is what I think, this is the way I see it. I am happy that way and if I was not in the restaurant during service, I would still be there mentally which is also not good,” he said.
One final question is where he would like to be in 10 or 15 years. That’s a long time but Alexandre is focused on building things step by step. He wants to develop the food truck and street food concept and also to build the team and preserve or improv the existing conditions. “We get a lot of proposals but what is important for me is to reflect because I do not want this to stop be from having the time for myself and my family. I want to be able to be present for the children and if I can keep that it will be create. Creation takes a lot of time and you need the energy for it,” he concludes.
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